In retrospect, my post against you was also negative, so I suppose I don’t really have a leg to stand on.
Ghosted by Nickelodeon @ 11/20/2009 11:20 AM EST
I humbly disagree with you wroclawski. I think the quality of a book is in the minds of the reader. Sure Harry Potter and Dan Brown books may be simplistic or juvenile but there is a reason they have captured such a large audience. I mean, the guy who wrote my pathology textbook is a great writer, but he is no author. Great authors can capture the minds of their readers and I have a lot of respect for people like Rowling and Brown because they are able to do this for millions of people. Plus I have to respect anyone who can get today’s kids so interested in reading. I haven’t ever read their writing, but I don’t know too many people who have that didn’t have fun reading it. I mean seriously who doesn’t like a fun book?
Ghosted by drew do @ 11/19/2009 11:12 PM EST
I TOTALLY agree with drew do. Frankly, I think alot of the “traditional” “classic” “timeless” authors, movies, whatever terms you want to use are vastly overrated. If a person is engaged in whatever entertains them, then it is successful. Whether it stands the test the time is another matter, but to simply say that something popular is therefore inferior to something that is “classic” “Traditional” whatever is simply WRONG and snobbish.
Frankly, I think the real test for something to be called “classic” should be is if a person willingly goes back to it time and time again. If something has to be forced on someone, or is simply a “do one time only” thing, it fails the classic test.
In fact, this would be an interesting survey topic. Name something (books, movies, music, tv, video game, whatever,) that has been called “classic” that you don’t care for. I’ll start.
Never liked Seinfeld. Curb Your Enthusiam sucks.
I prefer the Watchmen movie, as flawed as it is, over the graphic novel. Same goes for “V for Vendetta.”
Citizen Kane and the Godfather movies are simply ok to me.
I do find it funny that we’re discussing “traditional vs modern” snobbery stuff on a website where Friday the 13th, Transformers, and Ecto-Coolers are frequent topics.
Ghosted by King JLA @ 11/20/2009 12:01 PM EST
Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Citizen Kane, and the Godfather are all popular entertainment . . .
Nowhere has it been said that all popular entertainment is inferior to traditional literature. The fact remains that a piece of literature can be intellectually measured against another piece of literature. While it is true that this is often done through amount of intertextuality in a work, that isn’t the only measurement.
You can like whatever you want, however quality often does not come to something as subjective as simply “liking” something. However, if we look at authors as not only men of letters, but also as personalities, we see a draught of that as well. Our most celebrated authors in 2009 are a housewife turned writer, a Mormon who writes about vampires, and a guy who wrote his best-seller from his mother’s spare room. These are not interesting personalities.
Where are the Adam Mickiewicz of the world, who travelled all around the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, exiled five years to Russia, who went to Istanbul in his later years to organize a Polish legion to be used against Russia, something that would eventually claim his life.
The Marek Hlasko characters, who was dubbed the James Dean of Eastern Europe.
The Gustav Meyrink personalities, who was striken with his first story idea while on the brink of suicide at age 24, standing on a table with a gun firmly pressed against his temple.
Nope, we get a housewife, a Mormon, and a guy who lived with his mom.
I gotta agree with Nickelodeon. I really don’t care for wroclawski’s posts or attitude at all. I know he’ll probably throw out some “I don’t care what you think” response but it needs to be said. People don’t come here for negativity and that seems to be all he brings to the table. Hopefully he’ll just go away before he drives the more sociable and fun people off.
I’ll give you Curb, but since when was Seinfeld, Godfather, and Citizen Kane just popular entertainment?
I think you are under some notion that you have to be either well-educated, well-traveled, or have some sort of pain/depression in your life to be interesting or at least matter? I don’t agree with that at all.
Creativity comes from everywhere. If while taking a shower I happen to come out with an idea for something that happens to be good/popular, that is just as valid as someone who gets inspired traveling across Europe trying to raise awareness for something who also just so happens to be missing his arm due to some accident he was involved in as a kid.
Ghosted by King JLA @ 11/20/2009 1:55 PM EST
I wasn’t trying to suggest that you need to be well-educated or well-travelled to be creative. To be interesting, yes I feel you must be.
I just mourn the loss of the whole package, the cult of personality that used to surround authors and literary figures. They weren’t just writers, they lived amazing lives, did amazing things, and often just wrote as an afterthought.
Their lives were their true art, they just used what was left over in their prose. That is what I lament, the loss of that class of person and the mystery that surrounded their lives. I miss authors who lives were at least, if not more, interesting than their works . . . no one does anything these days . . .
I miss people who DID things.
The literary scene is so sterile and inoffensive these days. One could chalk this up the mundane routines that characterize modern life, but literature used to be something more . . .
Unfortunately, wroclawski, this is the culture that we live in. People enjoy what’s being written, and not only because it’s homogenized and marketed at them. Just give it time, and someone will take initiative, and the cycles of great literature shall again be in motion. Until then, just reread Tristam Shandy and Don Quixote. Know that those were once popular literature too.
I personally think that pop entertainment and actual literature are two entirely different things. Comparing Harry Potter to War and Peace is like comparing apples and oranges. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying one or both of them.
What I DO take offense to is people saying that “good” books and films are lame and that people who enjoy them are equally lame, and that being intelligent somehow means there’s something wrong with you. It’s like living in a parallel universe sometimes.
I think everybody will be a whole lot happier when they accept and acknowledge that wroclawski is highly educated and vastly superior. That is why his posts are very important.
You probably don’t know this because he never mentions it, but he is very educated and also writes for a living! He’s humble about it, though, because people tend to look down on him for being so superior and educated. So he seldom mentions it except constantly.
So everybody just relax, and pipe down, and let wroclawski tell you what’s good. He’s got a lot of education and he knows these things.
wroclawski, I’m not going to attack you like a lot of others have. I personally don’t care for your demeanor and I find you a bit pretentious. I know, I know, my opinion has been well-noted, thank you for your input. Anyway, you said something to the effect that the Twilight book couldn’t be worse than the movie. Thanks to my wife, I have read all four of the dreadful books and saw the first movie. I actually liked the movie better because in the book, you’re constantly told how beautiful and perfect Edward is and it got really old really fast. The movie didn’t do that, so I liked it more.
Teddy Ray, your love has been noted. Thanks for participating.
And while I look forward to wroclawski’s inevitable lecture like I look forward to my next gynocological exam, I do sit humbly and await my schooling, because wroclawski is an educated professional writer with much education, which is why people tend to look down on him. It is really the only logical explanation for a failure to embrace his superior personality and intellect.
Guys, why don’t we stop making fun of wroclawski? He’s just stating his opinion, which everyone is entitled too. He just has a different perspective on things then some of us. I can’t stand Twilight myself, and I’m in high school. If he comes of as bragging… I don’t think thats what he’s intending. He’s one of us.. we should stop singling out one.
You can dislike my demeanor and perceived pretentious attitude.
However, simply because I disagree with you guys doesn’t make me pretentious. It is a known precedent that there is a separation between high art and low art.
If I was agreeing with you all, you would love me and we would all have an awesome conversation about how great Harry Potter.
Since I simply disagree I am pretentious, negative, and mean.
Well, before I leave, I need to say something that will actually these warrant these claims, as I being called them anyways.
Teddy Ray, if I want the opinion of a hugely fat out-of-work high school teacher, I’ll ask for it.
Now I need to flaunt my education, because according to Rev I do it anyways . . . hmmm . . .
I’ll take my Harvard BA and my Uniwersytet Warszawaski MA out of X-E for good.
Ghosted by Darth Galvatron @ 11/20/2009 3:35 PM EST
I guess they don’t teach proof-reading at Harvard.
Ghosted by Nickelodeon @ 11/20/2009 4:02 PM EST
I didn’t think we were being mean at all (until now). I thought we were having another highly spirited debate around here. You were the one getting pissy because people like me disagreed with you, WROclawski. There was no reason to give Plantmonster that response, especially since he agreed with you.
But if you decide to take your ball and go, well, bye.
Ghosted by King JLA @ 11/20/2009 4:06 PM EST
I’ve been reading this guys posts for the past few weeks.
It’s funny how they became so “educated” once he told us he was a writer. The second that bomb dropped, this guy starts using 4 syllable words and hitting the thesaurus like it was going out of style.
But for someone who’s paid to write, let’s actually examine a paragraph he wrote, which is on Page 10.
“Cameron, I would say that Rowling is good at what does. What she does is not exceptionally deep or significant, but she is good at it. As a writer of young adult fiction, she is very good.”
That’s literally word for word….and all it does is say the same thing 3 times in a row. Not only do I not believe he is not a writer…….if he is, it does not surprise me that he does not have any literacy success.
In the words of wroclawski: I don’t care for him, nor do I care for him, and I really don’t care for him.
Hey look! I’m a writer!
Ghosted by 123 @ 11/20/2009 4:10 PM EST
I meant to say that I do not believe he is a writer….not that I dont believe he is not a writer.
Forgive me, I went to Harvard….proof reading isn’t required. (lol Nickelodeon, that was pretty funny)
Ghosted by 123 @ 11/20/2009 4:13 PM EST
PlantMonster, that was so much fun, it convinced me to leave work early!
All my best hearts and rainbows and hugs and kisses and stars and snowmen and Swanson turkey dinners to you all!
Ghosted by velouria_78 @ 11/20/2009 4:18 PM EST
“Teddy Ray, if I want the opinion of a hugely fat out-of-work high school teacher, I’ll ask for it.
Teddy, catch you later, fatty.”
Truly the utterances of a gifted thinker.
Seriously – where can I read your work? I want to see how it’s supposed to be done.
Wroclawski types while wearing a monocle and a smoking jacket:that’s how you know he’s well-read and very interesting. Seriously, dude, I’m sure someone with your very high level of education can find something more productive to do than insult people on a nostalgia website.
Ghosted by DasTeufulNagatier @ 11/20/2009 5:04 PM EST
Consider a tofurky this no-Thanksgiving, folks!
Ghosted by DasTeufulNagatier @ 11/20/2009 5:08 PM EST
Tofurky? WTF?
Ghosted by jossimbyr @ 11/20/2009 5:40 PM EST
I hope hope hope hope for an advent calender this year… PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted by Matt. E-mail me!
Ghosted by 
I definitely need them, however I can get them!
Your opinion is well-noted Nickelodeon. It doesn’t make the tiniest bit of difference, but it is well-noted all the same.
When I piss into your C3POs please let me know.